On December 5, 2021, the "2021 Congdu International Forum" opened at the Guangzhou Congdu International Conference Center. This forum focused on "Multilateralism Version 2.0-Global Cooperation in the Post-epidemic Era". On the eve of the opening of the forum, Zheng Yongnian, the President's Chair Professor of the Chinese University of Hong Kong (Shenzhen), accepted interviews with reporters on topics such as global epidemic prevention and international rulemaking.

Zheng Yongnian said that this approach in Europe and the United States can neither solve the problem, but also deceive oneself. The new crown virus, no matter what variant it is, I call it "public bads"-public goods are good international public goods, and the new crown virus is bad public goods. In the context of globalization, various countries are integrated with each other. Everyone is on the same boat. When something happens on the boat, you will not run away from corner to corner, and you will eventually become a victim. Unless it is broken forever, it is impossible. Moreover, most African countries were once colonies of European countries. It is completely irresponsible to exploit when Africa is good and run away if something goes wrong.

The reporter asked: It is difficult for Western countries to make strong prevention and control measures against the epidemic in their own countries, but this time the suspension of flights to southern African countries was very fast and decisive. Why is there such a difference? Is this a kind of regional discrimination for Africa?

Zheng Yongnian: Western countries do not do well in internal governance because of the so-called democratization. The early governance in the West was relatively effective because their governments were relatively strong at that time; now under the intervention of neoliberalism, the role of the government is getting smaller and smaller, and government intervention in social life will also be considered illegal. Therefore, in the face of the new crown epidemic, the European and American governments can actually only stand by and watch.

Externalization of democratic issues

In any country, regardless of the political system, the ruling class and the elite bear great responsibilities; when the ruling class and the elite are degraded, there is no hope for this society. Why is the West now degenerate? It is because the ruling class and the elite have fallen. They can't manage the society by themselves and cannot be held accountable to the people, so they want to shift the responsibility to other countries. For example, in the so-called "democracy summit," the crisis of Western democracy obviously comes from within. The deterioration of the quality of democracy has nothing to do with China and Russia, but they are pushed to China and Russia. If internal problems cannot be solved, they will be externalized. In the end, it is still difficult to solve the problem, but it makes the problem worse.

As for whether it is geographical discrimination, the West has always said that geopolitics was brought up by them, and the so-called geopolitics, to say that the ugliest point is geographical discrimination-pay attention to areas that are important to oneself; do not care what happens in unimportant areas . This actually reflects the deep-rooted social Darwinism, or racial prejudice, in the West since modern times, but now because of the political correctness, such remarks cannot be stated clearly, in fact they are still proceeding.

Q: South African President Ramaphosa mentioned in a televised speech recently that vaccine inequality not only costs countries that do not have access to vaccines, but also threatens global efforts to fight the epidemic. What do you think are the main obstacles hindering the fair distribution of vaccines?

Zheng Yongnian said that the main issue is the responsibility of major powers. To govern "international public bads" (international public bads), large countries have to bear greater responsibility, because almost all relevant production factors are monopolized by developed countries, and small countries have no capacity, knowledge and technology, and can only sit and wait for death. .

But it is precisely on the issue of the responsibility of the great powers that the great powers have acted so selfishly, except for China-President Xi just promised that China will provide another 1 billion doses of vaccine to Africa. The current vaccine production capacity can actually meet the needs of people all over the world, but some large countries are too selfish or are affected by the monopoly of vested interests. This very tragic situation has occurred in small countries.

Question: So, should all parties in the world attach importance to China's participation instead of containment and suppression?

Zheng Yongnian: Don't hope that the United States will not suppress us. Don't imagine that the West will be friendly to China and take the initiative to understand China; it is inevitable to contain and suppress China, because the logic of the West itself is like this. Just like the "Thucydides trap" is Western logic, we say "you are wrong, don't impose it on us", but they will still impose it. Don't hope so. Of course, don't be afraid of others pointing fingers at you. We must have the confidence to walk the path that we think is right. Just like whether Sino-African relations are good or not, it is not Europe and the United States that has the final say, but China and Africa have the final say.

Of course, not all Westerners are malicious towards China. We have to make a clear distinction. The main thing that the West is malicious about China is those who are vested interest groups, anti-China and anti-communist groups, and most people will still identify with the Chinese people. We still have to accept well-intentioned criticism from the West.

Establish a new international order

Question: At present, we not only have to deal with the issue of climate change, but the global economic recovery is also facing non-traditional challenges. To overcome these difficulties, how should countries cooperate?

Zheng Yongnian: I think the theme of this forum is very good-"Multilateralism Version 2.0". In recent years, we have had great conflicts with the West on the issue of multilateralism. Western multilateralism is aimed at third parties such as China and Russia, and our allies are called "gangs." And our version has three features: one is multilateral; the other is for issues, such as the establishment of the Shanghai Cooperation, the BRIC countries, the Belt and Road Initiative, and the establishment of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, etc., to solve common problems that everyone faces; the third is Open and inclusive, any country can participate, including the One Belt One Road, and we also welcome the participation of any country such as the United States. Therefore, unlike the multilateralism 1.0 version of the United States against third parties, we are practicing a new type of multilateralism.

The new crown epidemic, climate change, and terrorism are all public enemies of mankind. There will be more and more similar problems in the future. As China continues to rise, based on the integration of version 2.0 of multilateralism, we can also have the ability to proceed. Transform the existing international order structure-The existing international order structure completely follows the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union, based on traditional geopolitics and traditional security concepts; we now urgently need a new multilateralism and a new international order.

Q: You mentioned that the rule is productivity. Do you have any suggestions on how to fight for the right to speak from the rules in the new round of opening up?

Zheng Yongnian: The major Internet companies are concentrated in China and the United States. Europe does not have a good large Internet company, but Europe and the United States have their own Internet rules, and our Chinese Internet rules only apply to us and cannot go out. why is that? Because Europe is good at transforming markets into rules; American Internet companies are open to each other, and all volumes are integrated into one rule; and China is the second largest economy, but our Internet companies are like potatoes, independent of each other. Therefore, we need to emancipate our minds, and we can transform a huge amount into rule-making power with a single reform.

Of course, the rules are to prevail, and the passage is to be suitable for each country. As the saying goes, "Shoes don't fit, you don't know until you wear them." We are now formulating international rules, which is different from the West. They used to impose their own rules on other countries, and we "we discuss things when we have things."

In addition, talent is very important. At present, we must not only cultivate our own talents who understand international affairs, but also cultivate international talents for other developing countries. This is part of China's responsibility. Although there are many foreign students in various campuses in China, the number is still too small.

Question: What do you think are the main problems that still exist in our current pattern of external propaganda?

Zheng Yongnian: For external propaganda, I think we must avoid the feeling of "I am the world". There are many problems in the United States now. Many members of Congress in the United States do not even have passports because they see the United States as the world. We must fight for the right to speak internationally, but we must never regard ourselves as the world; this world is diverse, so we still have to understand the world very humbly.

In addition, in terms of communication methods, China is not inferior to foreign media such as BBC and CNN, but why is it lagging behind in terms of voice? Behind it is the knowledge system. I have been emphasizing that the media must have power and must have a knowledge system behind it. Without the support of the knowledge system, the media has only one set of technical expressions.

After the West established a knowledge system from the Renaissance to the Enlightenment, it has been promoting Western values; if we really want to interpret China and establish China’s international outlook and international image, we must also have a little bit of the pre-Western missionary spirit. We must not be afraid of hardship, we must be careful, and we must truly start from the human heart.

Therefore, when the West uses ideology to demonize us, we must not make the same mistakes and demonize each other; we must return to facts, to science, to reason, and to present facts and reason in a down-to-earth manner. Don't be led by the nose, a few people in the West can't wait for us to scold them all day, this is exactly what they have in mind.

Question: General Secretary Xi proposed that "we must strengthen the propaganda and interpretation of the Communist Party of China, help foreign people realize that the Communist Party of China really strives for the happiness of the Chinese people, understand why the Communist Party of China can, why Marxism works, and why socialism with Chinese characteristics is good. "Under the current situation where the ideological gap between the Chinese and foreign people is huge, what do you think is our breakthrough point?

Zheng Yongnian: I think the breakthrough point is still three regressions. Our practical story itself is very good. With many data in China's development process, it is a miracle in the world economic history to take any one out. This is a basic fact. The question is how do we interpret the Communist Party and Marxism based on these basic facts. This is a very important question, which needs to be considered.

For Marxism, to be honest, we have the largest number of Marxist academies in China, but how many original things are there? From Mao Zedong’s generation to the new era of Xi Jinping, we emphasized Marxism in China instead of Marxism in Europe. To explain why Marxism is feasible in China, we must first explain how we can effectively transform Marxism into China. melted. This is not a simple question and requires a lot of our research. As a scholar, I feel that we should not always repeat what the General Secretary has said, but should refine the principles and directions he mentioned. This requires hard work to make it clear.

For example, the "Federalist Humanities Collection" in the United States is a collection of the thoughts of the leaders of the United States when the nation was founded. You can see how many people in the American academic circle spent and time studying. Some of our current work is still too simple. It is a pity that many books on Mao Zedong’s thoughts are written by Westerners. For example, when studying Deng Xiaoping, we cannot ignore Fu Gaoyi’s books.

So I think in modern times, our intellectuals still need to reflect, always use other people's concepts and theories, and there is no originality. If you are an application-oriented person, people don’t care. Westerners look at it. This is my theory and my method. You just did a case study and he is not interested. It can be said that originality is power. If China cannot establish its own social sciences, it will be difficult to be convincing.

So I have been saying that understanding China is a great undertaking, and the core issue is to establish a knowledge system based on Chinese practice, based on Chinese experience, and capable of explaining Chinese phenomena.Editor/XuNing